Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now

Rhea: One of the most difficult things I've experienced was when I realized there was no turning back, that I had come to a point where I couldn't but listen to myself. I couldn't betray myself anymore for someone else or for anything else, but I didn't fit anymore in the world that I had created for myself because of that. Because when we were locked into our karma, when we're locked into our crap, we design our world to allow us to avoid seeing that we're locked into our crap, you know?

Liz: And seeing the crap for what it is.

Rhea: Exactly. We turn our coping mechanisms into a lifestyle.

Liz: Yeah.

Rhea: And so when we no longer need those coping mechanisms, our lifestyle doesn't match who we are anymore, and that can be really jarring because then we have to create everything again. And it's funny because I thought it would be when you say, Fuck This! That's the turning point, you know? And it is. I thought ...

Liz: Well, it is a turning point, but it's a turning toward your karma.

Rhea: Yeah. And I thought that when we make choices within the game to get out of it, they're all turning points. Right. But actually, all those are the same thing, which is as we discussed in the last episode, they are just us tapping into our hearts and making our own choices. But it's when you're out of that almost, when you are dealing with a blank slate where everything is unpredictable - things could blow up in your face, things could not. Everything looks one way, but could be something else and it's really confusing and it's very unstable. And I found that I was actually … that was when I was at my most insecure. I just felt really insecure. I felt literally insecure in the sense that I did not feel secure.

Liz: Right. Because there's no grounding. Post-karmic game, you feel rather untethered. I mean, at least during your karmic game, all your coping mechanisms and that became your lifestyle as you so perfectly put that, at least gave us something to hold onto. It gave us a footing. And when we're karma-less, which by the way is new for so many people and new for many lifetimes. So let's just say that we don't have a lot of experience at this.

Rhea: Have people been karma-less in other lifetimes?

Liz: It's certainly possible, but not here really because as long as you were in Separation, it would have been really challenging. So then you would have to pick up a lifestyle where that would have been possible.

Rhea: And I guess you would have maybe just chosen a new bit of karma to work through.

Liz: Usually that's how it works, but that's why we do hold on. Even when we're sort of at the end of our karmic game and as you experienced, it's like do I want to make this final step? Because you do get to a point where there is literally no turning back

Rhea: I didn't, by the way. Do you remember? I really didn't. I held on for a very long time

Liz: For dear life. Oh my gosh! It was painful to watch.

Rhea: I really didn't want to do it. I think on some level, I knew ...

Liz: You rationalized the fuck out of it ‘cause it's difficult because then everything becomes uncertain after that. And on top of that, we become responsible because then we have nothing to blame anymore. We don't have our karmic theme or our karmic story to define us anymore, or your actions or behaviors or choices, our relationships. Suddenly it's all up to us. That's fucking scary.

Rhea: And I think also because, you know, as in the land of Separation, we've always been told do X equals Y, right? And it's with everything, including spirituality, including religion, including everything. So it's been very much this idea that work through your karma and at the end of your karma, everything you wanted to sitting in a pot of gold. You're about to have everything you want the second it's done. Like surprise! Party! Welcome to Nirvana. And I think actually the reality is just your life doesn't really look any different, feel different.

Liz: You experience it differently and the potential is all there. So the pot of gold is actually potential, pure potential, and that's more freedom than we've ever been gifted and that's actually the Nirvana. To me, those were all just metaphors because nobody could really ever explain it well. And especially if you're like, well, I'm sure the gurus of yesteryear knew better than to say, Well, listen, it's really not that you're going to have everything you want. It's just that you're going to be so free for the first time that you're going to finally feel peace. Some people will be like, no, no, no. I'll take the party. I'll take the lifestyle. I'll take the coping mechanisms because that's kind of fun and passionate and I need all that drama. It's really all that work that you put into resolving and divesting yourself of your karma that you're like, wait, there is something. I can feel it. I can sense it and it's that internal work. So of course everything, if you're doing it on the inside and it's all internal work, well, then the payoff is still internal, isn't it? And we need to get there and the moment you have that is when you're like, okay, maybe I really don't need the party. Maybe I don't need all that Shit. But the meaning of this lifetime for several generations is to end Separation through karma. That's the “why”.

Rhea: Yeah. And how do we do that on an individual level?

Liz: We come into our purpose. We spend so much time and we've spent a few seasons talking about karma, the karmic game and coming out of your karmic game and healing all that Shit. Can I say that? And healing all of our Shit, but one thing that we sort of land on once we're out of it all is how do we create meaning? How do I create my own pot of gold, if you will? What does my Nirvana look like? That Nirvana is not the same for everyone. It cannot be. It doesn't work, and I don't think we could have ever understood that from a place of lower consciousness, which is why I think so many people sold the idea of heaven or Nirvana as this kind of blanket space of peace, because nobody could ever really explain it. We wouldn't have understood it, but we have to be able to create our meaning and that's not our why. Meaning is not purpose. Purpose is your why. And purpose is being the best me that I can be, but meaning is how am I going to be the best me? It's this intangible that brings out the best of us.

Rhea: How? I don't understand. Will it become clear over the episode?

Liz: It will. It will. But that's the difference between purpose and meaning, but meaning effectively becomes devotion. You're like ... Blank stare from Rhea scares the fuck out of me because that means no-one's going to understand me if she can't. That makes me sad. It's okay. It's not your fault.

Rhea: So when we're out of our karmic game, we have to create our own meaning. That is the point, right? You're out of your karma, you want to create your own meaning, which I would call create your own joy, I guess as well, right? And that isn't I'm going to live my purpose. It's how can I be the best me?

Liz: Yes, exactly.

Rhea: Not just because ... purpose is being the best me is living my purpose. Doing whatever the fuck I want to do when I want to do it and know that it's fucking perfect.

Liz: So you can grasp your purpose like you Rhea are doing what you're doing. You've got your podcast and your writing, but it could feel like maybe it's not totally enough because there's something that you're not connecting to yet. And that is meaning. It's not the same as intention.

Rhea: No, basically it's, What's the point?

Liz: Exactly.

Rhea: Yeah.

Liz: And so the meaning is what becomes devotion. Because devotion... it's a particular channel that moves through Love. So Love as we've discussed is infinite so it cannot be contained. It cannot be quantified or measured. But if devotion is a channel, it allows us to bring Love into our purpose.

Rhea: Okay.

Liz: Okay. So if we can bring Love into our purpose, that's when purpose takes on new meaning, because then it becomes a vocation. And when we are in a vocation, it means that it is touched with the Divine.

Rhea: Do you understand this?

Liz: Yeah. I Love what I do and I Love how I live. How I live is enough for me. Some people can look at my life and be like, well, why does she live in the basement? Why did she do this? Why did she do that? But it's fine. It works for me. I'm not sitting here and like existing in a state of FOMO, wishing that I had more. What I have is enough. But doing all of this work, especially with you because I've enjoyed partnering with you, it means everything to me, which means I cannot not do this because that is how devoted I am to it. Loving it the way that I do means there isn't anything else I'd rather be doing because it brings me joy, peace, bliss and immense satisfaction. It could be any one of those things at a minimum. Once you are in your vocation, it is not about you anymore. It is not a devotion to yourself. It becomes bigger than that because it is part of the Divine, and that's the distinction and that's why it's not just about purpose. That's really the reason we get out of bed in the morning. Some people, they get out of bed and the first thing they do is their yoga practice or they meditate. It's a reason to get out of bed and not just because of the screaming baby, although it could be like that. It begins with that because children can become a devotion.

Rhea: So can you be devoted to your children and your work? Can you have both?

Liz: Oh, once you're in a state of devotion, everything becomes an extension of that devotion so everything can receive that level of devotion.

Rhea: Well, there are four different ways in which we can enact our purpose, which in this case, I guess is our vocation.

Liz: Yeah, that ties in perfectly.

Rhea: And they do line up with our bodies. So there is mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual. Emotional - how we feel, and it's not necessarily just our transient emotions. It's the emotional body in its larger sense and how powerful that is. So it could be things like being an empath, holding someone's hand as they go through a tough time. These are just examples of ways in which it comes out. Then you have mental, which is again not fear and ego in the limited way that we know it. It's the larger mental sense of being able to connect the dots, being able to get logic out of spirit.

Liz: I like that.

Rhea: Being able to see the patterns in music and language. Being able to communicate something from the mind, which is not necessarily so linear, but being able to almost make it linear in some ways. There's physical, which just means literally creating something in our physical reality. It could be building a bridge, being an engineer. I have a friend who I will tell her an idea and she will know the steps to take to literally bring it into this world.

Liz: Yes.

Rhea: This is the person you speak to. This is what you do. She can literally create it in this world.

Liz: Yes. And that's not to be confused with a manifester.

Rhea: No.

Liz: It's not the same thing at all.

Rhea: It's literally making it happen, being able to navigate this world in order to create it, not like, oh, I hope this comes to me and it just turns up. It's this is the person you speak to and this is what you say, and this is how we do it. Whereas the emotional one is very much the kind of like, maybe I can open and show you compassion. So I'm able to see what the other person is feeling or whatever story you're telling me. Maybe I can open your mind in a different way. And then there is spiritual, which is effectively that everything is connected to the divine, and that person is here just to bring that through.

Liz: And there aren't that many.

Rhea: As we said, they do correlate to our bodies.

Liz: Yes.

Rhea: And whilst we teach in wholeness is to be able to use all four bodies.

Liz: Right.

Rhea: And that is how when we talk about consciousness, it's the emotional, physical, mental, and we talk about higher conscious, that brings in the spiritual.

Liz: Yes.

Rhea: This is not that we are ignoring some bodies in favor of others. Not at all.

Liz: Well said. Not at all.

Rhea: It is just that where we feel most natural and comfortable expressing ourselves will be in one of the bodies in one way or another.

Liz: Very much.

Rhea: What I find fascinating about that - and if anyone wants to know the key to which one theirs is - it's where they go to when they're still stuck in their karma. I didn't realize this, but it's true. I realized this like couple of months ago, and I was so excited.

Liz: It's like our Achilles heel. But it makes a lot of sense that that's where we really have to ...

Rhea: Did I not tell you this in June? I was so excited.

Liz: You might have.

Rhea: Maybe not as ... go on. Yeah, exactly. Because what happens is, if you think about it, if you have more of a physical purpose, when something goes wrong, when your karma hits you in the face, your reaction will be try to fix it physically. Who do I need to speak to? How do I get this fixed? What medicine do I need to take? What tests must I do? If it's something mental, you'll go into your mind. If your purpose is more mental, that is where you're most comfortable because that's where you're wired to be most comfortable so you go into your mind. You're like, how can I connect the dots in a way? How can I solve this? You go into your fairy ego in a way that's very toxic.

Liz: What's the equation?

Rhea: What's the equation? Where do I fix this? What is my expectation and where does it go?

Liz: There is a solution.

Rhea: Exactly. When it's emotional, when you're starting your karmic journey, you just feel everything to such a degree that it almost...

Liz: It's a lot.

Rhea: It's too much. So you almost shut down your emotions, but that's where you're going. You're going to your emotions to navigate it through, and that's when you're being ping-ponged all the time from one thing to another because when you're in your karma, your emotions are much more ...they are always transient. It's not the emotional body that you're picking up. How could they feel? Where's the compassion, where is the love? How can I hold someone else's hand through their journey? It's more I am just being flung from one side to the other with all these emotions. And then if it's spiritual, what tends to happen is you just shut down the connection entirely. You don't trust your learning anymore and all that kind of stuff and then you feel anchorless in the same way. So we can almost guess which one it will be. Like everything else that we've been teaching, our karma, the bit pre-game and during the karmic game is actually giving us all the information we need to have for what comes out afterwards. And that's another one. So for me, I was always in my mind. I'm still in my mind in a way, but now because it's not dictated by fear and ego, it's able to be so much more expanded, and that is where I feel much more natural. It is where I feel my best coming from that place. But it's about marrying my heart and my mind. It's about bringing forth the rest of me and using my mind to maybe explain it, express it, but not be trapped in it, if that makes sense. And I believe that even as I'm describing them, I can see myself a bit in every single one.

Liz: Yeah. There are going to be people who I think are going to be like, but that sounds like me and then that sounds like me too. Can you be both? And you can have a little bit. It depends on what your purpose is, depends on how you're enacting that purpose and how your vocation comes through that maybe you do need a little bit more. Which is why you thought wouldn't mine be spirit. Well, because yes, yours is spirit-adjacent or involved, sure but that's not going to be the main one.

Rhea: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's what it is. So when you're looking for your vocation, it's just how you're expressing your purpose.

Liz: Yes, exactly. And for the spiritual purpose, one of the things that came through when they discussed spiritual purpose was that first of all, there really aren't a lot of people who have that, and we really won't see them until the younger generations come through.

Rhea: Because it really involves not just being connected to something divine. I see the Divine in you and I see the Divine in me. It's that I/ thou. Everything is an expression of the Divine. It feels like it's much more than that. It’s, your strongest relationship in this world is between you and the Divine.

Liz: Precisely.

Rhea: And that is not the case for me.

Liz: Yeah, and you don't want it to be.

Rhea: No, honestly.

Liz: It's not going to work for you.

Rhea: No. But that's the other thing that we speak about is that if you look at it, we all become so complementary. And that really fits that oneness thing of together. We are stronger together than we are alone because we wouldn't be able to do this podcast if it was too spiritual or too mental. You need that complementary between the two. It doesn't make us better or worse than the other one. It doesn't make us pigeonholed. I'm just as ... I have to use my emotions in order to explain them. It's just instead of being able to ... so someone emotional, for example, would take something mental and then feel it. I will feel it to then explain it. It's just the way in which we're wired.

Liz: Absolutely. I mean, we are still required to have a level of emotional intelligence to navigate our world.

Rhea: I wouldn't be whole, and I wouldn't have done what I did if it wasn't from my emotions, because I think there is a difference between our emotions and our heart.

Liz: Very much.

Rhea: And I was hoping you could explain that, please. I know that but I don't know why I know that.

Liz: Because the first few seasons, one of the big epiphanies, I think, as you go through your karmic game is really, as you had experienced is: Does this feel right to me? We have to constantly do this check-in because for you especially, it was the, my mind keeps tripping me up. Whereas for others, it might be like, everything always feels right to me. Why don't I try to use another part of me that might really be the one I'm ignoring more that's like, Hey, can you look at the red flags? But when we really are whole and healed post-karma, one thing that is definitely healed is that emotional body, the heart. And I think I briefly mentioned it in a previous episode is our hearts are really our truth barometers. That's where the discernment comes in and that's really when we can always tell if somebody is bullshitting us or not. You just know. You don't even have to think about it. You don't have to debate it. You don't even have to kind of wonder this person's history or anything. They just are or they're not and you can read that.

Rhea: And I know we've spoken about this in Season 3, but it does work the other way as well so you know that they're not bullshitting you, but your mind wants to tell you that they are. It really does work both ways.

Liz: It's true especially when you're in your karmic game ‘cause there's always that fear that's somehow dictating.

Rhea: That is why we say the emotions - and I know you said this in one of them - emotions and thoughts are transient, right? You think a thought; you feel an emotion, it kind of goes through you. The heart - and that's the expanded emotional body, just like we said that the expanded mental body isn't fear and ego. It's all the other bits.

Liz: Yeah, it's the portal. It's the portal to spirit so it's really from that space that we can really come into our vocation. And that means that we really have to come into it whole and healed and with integrity, which means we can't have an agenda beyond any joy or meaning that we get from whatever it is that we're doing.

Rhea: So that's egoless.

Liz: So the better we know ourselves, the better we know what brings us joy, but really what matters. Can you answer, Where am I most in my power? Where am I most in love? Not with whom, but where and where am I most in joy? Again, the better the relationship we have to ourselves, the clearer we can be around what our meaning is, because we don't necessarily have to see it as a vocation if that doesn't work for us in the moment. We might still be too unsure post karmic game what we really want out of life or what we really desire. It really depends on what our growth trajectory has been. So it can just be very simply, can I fully accept myself? Do I know where my talents and my strengths lie? Do I know what my limitations are?

Rhea: Well then ... and what? From there, we can kind of begin to recognize our potential?

Liz: Yeah, absolutely. We don't keep deluding ourselves into thinking we need to fix something that maybe doesn't need fixing in order to live our purpose. Because as you said, when we're coming through our karmic game, we're really tapping into all of those talents and skills that will actually serve us when we come into our purpose, right? So those are really going to be great strengths. And at the end of the day, while we might need to learn something, we might have to learn a particular trade or you can edit a podcast very well. There are just different things that we learn along the way. That's fine as well, but we don't have to be trumped up by our perceived limitations. Think, oh, I can't do that because I can't do XYZ or I don't have a diploma in this. Therefore, I can't do this.

Rhea: So when you say we reach a level of self-acceptance including our limitations, what do we do with those limitations then? Are they not limitations?

Liz: Well, they can be. I mean, I'm never going to edit a podcast. I could try, I could learn. I'll probably do a very, very shitty job and realize that I'll probably have to, you know. We all have them because again, if we really are very clear about how our purpose manifests best, why would we necessarily want to spend our time trying to know how to do everything? And this is why we talk about this after we talk so much about mission and purpose. Because the devotion really has so much to do with where we're at in our relationship to ourselves.

Rhea: I think there's a lot of times, it's like, oh, if I just go to the gym, then I'll do this, or oh, if I do this, then this will happen. And those kinds of beliefs, I think keeps us still in Separation.

Liz: Very much.

Rhea: The truth is I came out of my karma and nothing changed because I was already living my purpose. I was already using my heart to burn through my karma. I was already surrounding myself with the people that would still be around me when I was out of my karma. That wasn't a huge difference in everything around me. The only difference was I just didn't make it all about how I wasn't good enough anymore. That was the only fundamental difference, and so I don't want people to be listening, thinking, okay. So step one, burn out karma. Step two, find purpose. Step three, figure out vocation. Step four, learn if That vocation is one of the four things. No, because everything that we do in our karma is all the shit we do out of our karma, just without the underlying belief that we don't deserve anything and there aren't possibilities, and we aren't worth anything and we're not good enough. Everything else is just life. We've always been in our happily ever after. We just didn't fucking see it.

Liz: When you experience devotion and because it is a channel - how did we call it? It's a channel that moves through Love. It does ground you in that Love and that's why it is a vocation. That's why there is Love in it. That's why it is divine. So I can feel grounded in my work if I experience devotion to it. It doesn't have to be my everything, but it is certainly going to be my sweet spot.