Adventures in Connecting Transcript

Rhea: Adventures in connecting. It's really adventures in figuring out how straightforward can you be and how straightforward is the other person being.

Liz: Adventures or misadventures. Just sort of fumbling our way through the steps in the process.

Rhea: It's just embracing the mess of dating, embracing the mess of humanity. That’s really what it feels like I've been doing recently. I'm not going out on dates for the sake of going on dates, not at all. I'm definitely doing this because if I'm going to be on my death bed, I don't want to be, oh I'm so glad I did that extra tapestry cushion. No!

Liz: You're really just being in the present moment and that's perfectly fine because you know how invested you are in this process. You get that you're not cleaving to these apps or meeting people as a way to escape your life, or as a way to get to the next step of, okay, well I need to get married now. I'm ready. I'm this age and this is the next part of my life and I have to get there.

Rhea: Well, I went from being very rigid to now kind of just having new experiences, learning new things, meeting new people and when you meet new people, shit gets messy and I like order. I like knowing. I need to know my plan. I need to know my order. I need to know all that kind of stuff and it doesn't really work when you're just having fun.

Liz: And I think that we forget how to have fun, or we limit our idea of fun and connecting with others could be a lot of fun.

Rhea: Feeling desired and wanted and you can tell yourself how great you are. It's sometimes nice to hear other people say it too.

Liz: Or have it reflected back to you in your interaction with them because I think that's really the beauty of connecting. As you are connecting with another person, that fun time that you're having or the great time or whatever that experience is for you, that's meaningful. It's really just reflecting back all those things that you have, that you are.

Rhea: Explain. What do you mean?

Liz: Because people tend to be mirrors to us and like attracts like. So when you are having these interesting conversations or these fun times and you're laughing or you're enjoying something you find that you have in common with this person, it’s just you spending time with yourself but in the body of another person. Does that make sense? Yeah, and that's like sort of the mirroring going on.

Rhea: Well I think what's really interesting is that all these people that I've interacted with, I never would have met them otherwise most likely, and now we are in each other's stories. A one date wonder that changed something about me and my perspective that would then change something about how I interact with the next person. By connecting to them, I'm learning something new about me, so I'm connecting to myself too. I realized that I can still be vulnerable and safe, because I was always scared of getting hurt. Everything I did—whether or not to text him, whether or not to meet him, whether or not to see him again—it always felt too scary because it always felt emotionally unsafe. Being vulnerable with someone else doesn't mean giving them power over you. It means knowing that you can be vulnerable with them, but if they don't reciprocate, you'll still be okay. And knowing you'll still be okay is ultimate safety. You'll get over anything. You can pick yourself back up and start again. And so those questions of should I text him? Should I call him? Should I see him?

Liz: Should I tell him how I feel?

Rhea: Should I tell him how I feel? Should I tell him what I want? I always come back to a place of would I be worse off if I don't?

Liz: How would you determine if you're worse off? Like what would be your criteria for that?

Rhea: You can't expect any of these people that you are meeting to know you, to be able to pre-empt what you want and what you like. You've all had different experiences. You all have different perspectives on everything

Liz: And coming from different places.

Rhea: Totally.

Liz: Perhaps a more damaged place than the person you met before. You just don't know. And people are not mind readers.

Rhea: So if something's so important to you that you are willing to walk away for it, then you might as well first off ask for it. And that's what I mean also about keeping yourself safe. Because in asking for what you want, you're honouring, yourself . . .

Liz: So key!

Rhea: And knowing that you have the balls to ask for what you want is also allowing you to know that you have the balls to walk away if you don't get it. And that for me was the game changer. You know, we were talking in a previous episode about how the old paradigms of dating are not working with the new ones and they 100% aren't. The question that comes in then is what do you do then? This is kind of the answer in a way, do I want to do this? Does it make me feel good to do this?

Liz: And by good, that's somewhat dangerous territory because for some they feel that an emotional purge is what's gonna make them feel good. But sometimes that's the sort of transient moment that might create a little bit more damage in one's wake than is worth it. And that's where we talked about discernment because I definitely advocate emotional honesty, and I think for this sake of this podcast, which is more the adventures in connecting, we're really talking about the early stages when you really are just meeting people for the first time, say within a month. You're figuring out those different layers of connecting.

Rhea: And the more dates I had, the more people I met, the more I figured out what I liked and what I didn't like.

Liz: Oh, because you were also giving thought to it though. There are some who are still swiping and swiping and mindlessly going out on dates and not trying to figure out what's working and what's not working.

Rhea: Yeah, but if you're going to do this, you might as well make it worth your while. All of these BS dates that I'd come home from and know I was never going to see the guy again. Let's make it worth my while. Was that stuff about him that I did like? Was there stuff that I didn't?

Liz: And how did you feel? How was being in their presence? How did that make you feel? I think that's a key question as well. Did I feel good about myself? Was it just because they were giving me attention for my physical appearance or was there something about me that came out? Again, when I'm staring at the mirror, I mean almost not quite the literal, but the figurative mirror of what am I seeing about myself that I'm enjoying or not enjoying when I'm with this person?

Rhea: And I think that's the thing is that you learn that not everyone is worth your time and not everyone is what you hope they'd be, but some people are even better, and you didn't expect it. So you have to be open to just flowing through it.

Liz: Very much.

Rhea: And I just really, I think the one thing I want to make really clear is that this isn't me coming from a place of, Oh, I've done it and I know what I'm doing now. I still don't know what I'm doing now.

Liz: No.

Rhea: And it's very much a kind of, but now instead of just doing, okay, stop what is this triggering? Because I might as well use it as the lesson, and I think that's the other thing about when you say mirror. Yes, people mirror you. But it was also, I'm looking, what are you mirroring to me about me? You can learn other people's experiences by listening to podcasts or reading and all the rest of it, but you will only know your boundaries and your feelings when you're trying them out.

Liz: Absolutely, because half the time when you are comparing yourself to others and you're trying to use them as sort of a measuring stick, it doesn't work because you are not them in that respect. Perhaps your learning comes differently. I'm somebody who has to get burned a lot.

Rhea: Yeah, me too. It really sucks. It's exhausting.

Liz: So while I talk about oneness consciousness and how we are all the same, what is different is how we express that, how we express ourselves, how we express our divinity, how we express our need for love, and it comes in so many different packages. So your friend is not going to have the same experience as you.

Rhea: No, and when I say keep myself safe, what I mean is be authentic. Listen to myself, have integrity. Anything I say, if it's really who I am in that moment, then it's really who I am in that moment. I can't regret it and I can't rewrite it, but what I did notice and I do notice that when I try and contort, when I try and say things that aren't necessarily true in my heart . . . .

Liz: Because they're coming from a place of fear, perhaps.

Rhea: A fear of being loved . . .

Liz: Or doubt.

Rhea: Doubt, ego, all those things and it blows up in my face, I always am trying to correct it and making a bigger mistake, or if I get what I want from those things, it's never as sweet because really what we're wanting really is for someone to pick us, to want to be with us, and so in order for that to be the case, we have to be us in the first place. Yeah, I'm all about putting your best foot forward.

Liz: Absolutely.

Rhea: Like, I mean, let's be realistic here.

Liz: There's a level of self-respect that grooming and vanity show. It doesn't have to be all you are. Let's hope not. If you would hope that for your partner . . .

Rhea: But it is turning up as yourself because think about your friendships and how you are yourself. You don't have to put on any airs and graces or pretend to be someone else. A relationship or dating or any kind of connection is the same thing. Being you is the only way you will be able to encourage the other person to be themselves too. And what's interesting is what I found is that when I'm me and someone else isn't, I notice. I feel it.

Liz: And then I found that the more honest you are, and again it goes back to the like attracts like, the more honest and vulnerable you are, you just find that certain people fall away.

Rhea: We're always so focused on finding the partner - what they're going to look like, they're going to be like, that we don't spend very much time focusing on what we are like as a partner. Well, if people are really a mirror, then I'm going to be the best me I can be. But to me still . . .

Liz: There is a caveat to that, which is, it's not to say that you've done so much work that the other person may not have some baggage.

Rhea: Oh, we've all got baggage. I'm shitting baggage.

Liz: So let's just say that first, all the work you do, it's really that you are okay enough with yourself. You are at a place of self-love.

Rhea: When you say self-love, I still feel uncomfortable with that too.

Liz: So then I would always say then self-care. Do you care about yourself enough?

Rhea: Yes.

Liz: You can come from that place.

Rhea: I think self-care is the right word and the minute it stops being fun, it's not right.

Liz: I think the beginning needs to be fun. I think for any kind of interaction, whether it be a short lived one or something longer term or lifetime, fun's got to be in that equation from the beginning. Part of that foundation for real partnership, fun is so key. Some of this interaction, the texting and the apps can kind of kill the fun because the anticipation.

Rhea: Yes, yes. Anticipation, the antithesis of fun. Uncertainty, antithesis of fun.

Liz: Oh, that would drive me bananas.

Rhea: Yeah, but that's the hard part.

Liz: I'm always somebody who says let it play out. Sometimes you fight against your instincts because it's fear or self-doubt that's driving that. And I'm not a believer in immediate response for pretty much anything unless it's an emergency. Either think about it or just give yourself space from it.

Rhea: A hundred percent agree.

Liz: Because otherwise you become quite reactive.

Rhea: Sometimes that's the ego or the self-protection or fear coming out immediately. So by taking some time, have I consistently felt that way for the past three, four hours? There could be a legitimate reason why you shouldn't text him and only you know that, but only you know that with a bit of distance and space.

Liz: And honesty. The ability to be honest with yourself because again, that's where I think we tend to trick ourselves. The urge to text or just be present on that person's mind, and I think that either let them know or ask yourself, why are you beginning to obsess over that?

Rhea: There's every chance that they're not texting you for the same reason you're not texting them, but there's also every chance that they're not texting you because they're not interested. You don't know. You've just got to ask yourself, what can I do in this situation that if either of these are true, I'm still okay?

Liz: Because either way you need to be able to walk away from what you were experiencing in that moment because it is disruptive

Rhea: And this is the caveat to that. If you do the wrong thing or you do the thing that you don't think should have done, it don't matter. It's not a big deal. That's the learning. That's the lesson. Maybe that was the only reason why that person came into your life for you to learn that.

Liz: Because I think that one word we haven't brought up a lot is trust. It's key to the process when you talk about “safe”.

Rhea: It's because I'm trusting myself.

Liz: You're trusting yourself.

Rhea: That's new. You're right. I do trust myself. I don't make decision by committee anymore, but sometimes I think, oh this could be wrong.

Liz: But then you trust that you'll be fine, no matter the outcome.

Rhea: Yes. And that's where the discernment—well you call it discernment, I call it knowing the difference—when it is appropriate to text your feelings because the other person wants to hear your feelings, and when it's not appropriate to text your feelings because the other person clearly doesn't respect the fact that you even have feelings.

Liz: And to the best of your ability not taking it personally because as I said before, understanding and that's where the compassion bit comes in, how a person's feeling or thinking about you, is really just an expression of where they are. It is just merely an expression of their consciousness and where they're at and that's a measure of their maturity.

Rhea: And that doesn't necessarily need to be age maturity.

Liz: Absolutely not.

Rhea: It's just how far along they are in their journey.

Liz: Precisely. Emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. We all have different ages and age is really, our physical age is just a number.

Rhea: You know, sometimes people just aren't ready. A lot of people see it as like a battlefield, but not only should dating be fun, but it should be making you feel better about yourself. Here a whole bunch of people who are telling you that they find you attractive, and then once they've told you they find you attractive, they're then chatting to you and then they're wanting to meet you. Like you've just got to look at it differently, so the ones that fall away, they fall away. The ones that are falling away just weren't yours to begin with, weren't meant to be for you.

Liz: No, no at all, and that's the trust bit I was talking about. Trusting that you will attract your equal.

Rhea: I trust that I can keep myself safe. I trust myself. I'm not quite there in trusting the other person.

Liz: No, it's not about trusting the other person.

Rhea: Okay. Fine.

Liz: With every act of discernment you make by swiping in a particular way or by allowing a particular interaction to take place, you're also putting it out to the universe your standard, who you are, and that energy that you're putting up will attract a similar energy and . . .

Rhea: That makes me very nervous.

Liz: And there are fewer of those, might get a little quiet. The more adventures you have, you might just sort of find things kind of start to quiet down a bit if you want something different.

Rhea: So we've been telling people we'll run into the fire but then does that not mean that they are then attracting more of that experience?

Liz: Possibly. Yeah.

Rhea: No, we need better than that because that doesn’t help. I don't want to create fear. This is the one thing I feel really strongly about.

Liz: It is fear because it feeds the doubt.

Rhea: It's fear because we are starting by saying that. We are saying the universe is punitive.

Liz: But it's not.

Rhea: And that's exactly why that’s a problem. I think we need to rephrase that.

Liz: Because it's giving us . . . the universe is always going to give you what you want. It's about being clear about what you want and being able to separate: are those wants the same as your heart's desires, because what you want and what you desire are two separate things. One is certainly better for you holistically than the other, but when we're saying run into the fire, well go ahead knowing that you will always be okay, but it's not to say that you won't get burned. Sure, go ahead. But understand that like attracts like, so you are going to find yourself in that cycle until you can ask yourself what is the greatest act of love I can show myself when I'm making this decision?

Rhea: My argument would be we need to give people space to get there. Yes. Right? Yeah. So I don't want anyone to think, Oh, if I run into the fire, I know I'll be okay at the end of it, but all I'm doing is ensuring that I'm going to have this experience again with the next guy. That fear I want us to say that’s not a fear. 

Liz: Okay. 

Rhea: Does that make sense? 

Liz: Absolutely.

Rhea: That's always in my head like, Oh, it sometimes I worry like, Oh, I want to do this and I know it'll be fine if I do it regardless of whatever happens. I want to see what happens. It's like an experiment. I want to see what happens if I do it this way. How am I going to feel? What's going on? Or I've done this before like this. It didn't make me feel good, but let's see if that happens again. Oh, okay. Yes. It didn't make me feel good. I'm not going to do that again. And I think that's right to do sometimes. Test your boundaries a little bit. You know, find out where they are. But I think what's important is that the idea is I don't want people to think, now I've texted this guy to see if I still feel the same way and it wasn't what I wanted. I'm going to get that experience again as a test, that this is going to have bigger implications

Liz: And then you're actually talking about karma in the sense of I'm reaping what I sow. I laid the seeds for all my insecurities and it's all just going to sprout in every guy that comes my way. It doesn't work that way.

Rhea: Okay.

Liz: Do what will allow you to sleep at night to put things to rest, however you must, because sometimes sending that text is maybe the only way you could just sort of purge yourself of that insecurity or that lingering doubt. It's really not a mistake as much as it's just an opportunity for growth because seeing it as an experience, an experiment in this human condition, more than this sort of personal life or death.

Rhea: Every experience I've had this past year—good, amazing, bad, horrific—has made me more sure that I can keep myself safe, that I can trust myself. So at the time where I thought, Oh, I wish I hadn't done that, or Oh, I wish I hadn't said that. I'm so grateful for all of those moments now because that's the learning that I got. That was how I connected to myself and connected to what I wanted, connected to what I didn't want and connected to me, and to listening to me. I think wherever you are in this path of finding someone to share a moment with or an experience with, or your forever with.

Liz: Which is essentially the interwoven path with self-discovery, because that's part of it.

Rhea: But this bit, you're gonna fuck up. You're going to fuck up because no one's ever perfect, but that's okay because if you listen to how you felt, and most importantly why, most of the time you'll find that there was something missing. The times that I've texted where I shouldn't, were the times that the guys didn't make me feel like they cared enough. The times where I hesitated about meeting someone, there was probably something missing on the other side somewhere, and I needed to take those experiences and learn them because we know. We don't feel, we don't really know until we just have loads of different experiences. People can tell you till you're blue in the face if he likes you, he'll text you. But until you've experienced all the different types, you're not going to know that for sure. In my case.

Liz: Yes. Because I do think our feelings around something is often what cements the experience.

Rhea: So it's just whatever you do, it's okay that you did it.

Liz: Or that you didn't. It’s just all okay.

Rhea: Every single step you make, however you make it, is going to get you to where you're going to go. As long as you learn from them and you grow from them and you're maturing into the person that you want to be and that you're looking for. For the past year, me and one of my friends have been joking that I've been on a dating crash course. That every experience has been a lesson that everyone else has learned over a period of like 15 years, I'm learning them all in eight months, and there's only one thing that's gotten me through all of this, and it's listening to what I really feel and that's what we call authenticity. That's what you call connecting. It's connecting to myself. I know I’ll make a decision that will be the best decision for me in that moment because either it'll work out in my favour and I'll keep myself safe, or I'll learn and I'll do it again. So I'm open to fucking up now because I'm seeing all of these messy experiences as learning opportunities about myself.

Liz: And that's what connection is. And that's what these adventures are. They're always meant to teach us about ourselves.